“It’s about the growth of the unit” – Grove chats to Lizzy

This article is part of our Community Conversations series, exploring stories of personal, professional and collective growth from across our 7 years working to redress the gender imbalance in music tech. 

Each piece follows a 1:1 chat between someone who has been closely involved in Saffron’s activities over the past 7 years and a member of the Saffron team. In this piece, genre-bending producer, vocalist and former Saffron Artist Development participant, Grove chats to Saffron’s Head of Development, Lizzy.

LIZZY: So my first question was going to be about your background, but before going into that I’d love to read back our first ever email correspondence from early 2019. I remember being very drawn to you and your energy from the very first sentence, which said: “I’m Grove, a 22-year-old non-binary hoe from Cheltenham”.

GROVE: (Screams) Oh my god!!!

LIZZY: But yeah tell us a bit more about where you’re from, the Cheltenham vibes.

GROVE: So I grew up in Cheltenham, and moved to Bristol when I was 22. I was involved in lots of different kinds of music there. I started off in a heavy metal band, then transitioned into a rock band and then into more of a singer-songwriter identity. So more in the hip-hop sphere, which encompasses loads of things really. I was part of this collective Five Mics and we supported So Solid Crew in Cheltenham which was just such a sick experience.

LIZZY: So you came to Bristol in 2019, which is also the year you first got involved with Saffron. Can you share some early memories?

GROVE: It was a very party-centric time because before that I’d only lived in a town, so when I’d go to cities for raves it would be a really special occasion. Then all of a sudden it was like every day was a special occasion. I was going out like 5-6 days a week. It was very unsustainable BUT I did learn so much about dance music. Diving into this world of dance music and all of the production around it really piqued my curiosity. I suddenly found myself trying to recreate some of the sounds in my short-term memory and mashing them all together. 

I’d heard of Saffron from other musicians in Cheltenham and remember thinking “I want to move to Bristol, let’s get in contact with them.” I checked out your page and it was so community-centric – our ethos seemed very aligned. So I reached out and was literally over the moon when I heard back. You know when you see an email and are just so excited about reading it, that you can’t even open it…

LIZZY: I’ve also had a look back to see what my reply was and I put in bold “I REALLY like your sound. You seem very driven. Do you have any plans to come to Bristol? Maybe we can grab a cuppa?” And then we did and you moved to Bristol and that was it really! 

So you came on our artist development programme that year and you said in your application, “In the future, I hope to see myself being a touring musician, DJ and producer. I’m seriously obsessed with this whole music thing. But I’ve learned the importance of it being community-based instead of ego-based. It’s also much bigger than the individual. It’s about the growth of the unit, about offering equal opportunity in dismantling hierarchies one piece at a time. It would be great to make a living and take it as far as it’s destined, but ultimately, I’d love to give back what’s been given to me.”

So from that place to where you are now, I feel that those values are still very entrenched in what you do. Tell me what role community and collaboration have played in your growth.

GROVE: It’s the whole reason that I’m able to do what I’m doing right now. It’s literally everything because I didn’t go to uni or anything like that. I was kind of freefalling after leaving school and it’s only through having this community of disparate people in a similar situation to each other that I found my way. I was given opportunities to learn production skills, given opportunities to hone different vocal styles and just experiment and play with combining them in a space where you’re not going to be ridiculed for doing it wrong. 

In terms of collaboration, I made loads of music with Diessa, an incredible artist who’s now based in Sheffield, but who I grew up with in Cheltenham. The synergy and experimentation I experienced through that duo is a big reason for the confidence I today have to push the boundaries of genre and add harsher elements into both my live and recorded performance. 

We would also have conversations about politics and what we want to see in the future, and I think having those conversations planted some seeds really early on in terms of making music with a tension – I think that’s really important.

LIZZY: Picking up on that, you’ve previously spoken about your music as a vehicle for representing yourself and other queer people of colour? What kind of response have you seen from other members of these communities?

GROVE: Most recently, for example, last week I was at this hardcore festival in the Czech Republic and there were so many dudes there. It was very energetic, with loads of people there to enjoy it, but I think being queer in that space… there were quite a few people who came up to us afterwards saying “we’ve never seen ourselves represented on stage or seen things relevant to our lives being spoken about” so that was a really heartening thing for them and us as well. 

I’ve also found perhaps that maybe more of the focus is on me representing my experience as opposed to everyone’s experience because I don’t know what other people’s experiences are. I’ve felt so alone for a lot of my life, so speaking about my experiences and people relating to that and getting to know those people has really helped me to feel less alone walking this life that we do. So foundationally that has been a really beautiful thing to experience.

LIZZY: I would love to know some of the things, being fully established in the music world as you are now, that you’ve learnt about navigating this crazy industry.

GROVE: I think what has been really important for me is having people around me whose opinions and intentions I trust. From my management to my booking agent to the people who do my PR, I feel they have a sense of integrity and sincerity about them. 

Also, I’ve learnt the importance of trusting my gut. For example, there have been some decisions that my team have been a bit reluctant to go forward with but I’ve been like “no this is happening”. That’s where a sense of fulfilment comes from. For example, the second EP I released, there was a bit of reluctance to release it because it was way less commercial. But I’ve never really cared about being commercially poppin’. I just release stuff that I like.

LIZZY: That’s something you said in your artist development application way back in 2019. You said “I want to make the kind of music where people are like ‘ooh what genre is that?’ and it will be genre-less like me. I used to be put off when people would say that means you aren’t marketable but now I fully embrace that approach and just run with it.” And you did do that!

GROVE: I’ve had incredible mentors along the way. I met Eva Lazarus who became my good friend and she stressed the importance of that. She fuses all kinds of different flavours and it works. It’s just incredible. It’s really encouraged me in sticking to my guns and running with what feels natural to me.

LIZZY: You’ve obviously come a really long way over the past few years. Have you noticed anything about the growth and development of Saffron over that time?

GROVE: Saffron has been so adaptable. With COVID and everything that’s happening in the world, you’ve been able to bring people together and help them connect with their passions. I remember in some of those early Saffron Members workshops, there were people hosting like Object Blue, and Loraine James – loads of heavy hitters. It was so nice being in those chat rooms and seeing all those faces there. The fact it’s continued in this accessible way after that, as well as you expanding into new cities across the world and bringing your energy there is so so sick! For people to be able to have these avenues and opportunities to link with each other and different mentors is so important.

LIZZY: I remember that session with Object Blue, which you were at and then afterwards didn’t you do a mix for Object’s RINSE show? I remember thinking “Yes! What’s happening through this is great!” and then of course having you back earlier this year to host your own Tech Dissect workshop was just the most wonderful thing! Do you have any hopes for the future of the music tech industry in terms of diversity and representation?

GROVE: From personal experience, I’ve always found within live music settings that things are way more efficient when it’s not all men running the sounds and lights. The most efficient and egoless experiences have been when there’s a woman or gender minority person on the sound. I think because we’re used to not being taken seriously and people assuming we don’t know what we’re talking about when actually we really f*cking do. In terms of being a part of that change, I know there are lots of different organisations training people up so I’m really happy to share and be a part of those kinds of activities. 

Lizzy: You are a part of it already by being you and doing what you’re doing! Anything else you want to say?

GROVE: I know this is not a Saffron puff piece but I am really glad to have had you as an anchor point when I came to Bristol and during the pandemic. You were this friendly, communicable and linker of people in a way that was so integral to me feeling like I was part of a community here. I think there are lots of pockets of community and it’s so nice to see them all link up. You’ve done really great foundational work for me and I’m really grateful.

Saffron runs annual artist development programmes for people based in Bristol and the South West of England. Interested in taking part in our next one? Sign up to our mailing list and we’ll let you know when applications open.